Project Downward Spiral

[mickphatmac]

Dang you do good work!!!!!!!!
LIKE

[phyler]

Dang you do good work!!!!!!!!
LIKE

Ha, I'm a total newb with body work. I just try to do what Gunnibronco says and that usually requires me sitting and staring at it for awhile. Hoping that the passenger side will go much faster.

Oh, that and carpet will cover a lot of sins. :-)

[phyler]

More progress. Got to the point where I realized I needed more clamps but don't have enough time to run to HF to pick up some. Oh well. I'll get them tomorrow.

The door post is where it should be based on measurements. The kick panel seems off as does the outer rocker (it is off by 3/8" at the front of the door opening). I'm thinking that I need to put a jack underneath where the tunnel hits the front floor pan and lift a little to rotate it. If that happens, I think the outer rocker will be dead on. I'm not sure about the gap at the top of the door. I don't have good pictures from before as it was in pretty bad shape. Maybe someone can point me at a good pic/measurement?

Anyways, here's the pics of the progress.

[Gunnibronco]

This has been shared 1000x, not sure if you've seen it.

bronco body measurements.jpg

That said, I would NOT go and count on those measurements.

I would do something, anything, to hang your doors (good, tight hinges?) and make sure they align to the quarter & top & windshield frame 100% BEFORE making it permanent. If you have to do some welds to give it enough structure to hold the door, make sure they are minimal & easy to remove. Or maybe lots of sheetmetal screws.

[Gunnibronco]

Something has to be done, try jacking up the floor. Everything outside the body mounts has sagged significantly on my truck.

Also, I've been talking to a guy who has restored a bunch of Broncos, and he says none of the reman'd door pillars are good these days. He said check the flatness of the pillar to kick panel surface, lots have a bow. That might be what you are dealing with.

Couple pics how mine lines up. Its a fairly rust free truck, just lots of twisting & tweaking, mostly low on the tub.

[phyler]

Thanks! I'm using those measurements. My original numbers from before tearing it apart were all within 1/16" of the 1974 column. I agree that the floor moved a little. Definitely planning to use a ton of screws so I can hang the door before welding it. I just wanted to see how close I was today. I'm close but not close enough.

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[phyler]

Tried hanging the door today. Got it on and made some minor adjustments and found that I need to move the top of the post at least 1/8" or more towards the front of the truck. Didn't bother to take a pic as my wife was kind enough to help me hold the door . Felt like progress but the door sill had to come back off.

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[phyler]

Got the door post adjusted slightly better and screwed it in and then re-hung the fender and door. It's closer but that is a relative term. It actually looked pretty good until I hung the new rocker:



After the rocker install:



It's interesting, if you look at the strip at the bottom of the door and the top of the door to the rear upper quarter, everything lines up. The body line trim is off but I think that is due the body line trim having moved over time (probably from sliding along a tree or something). Also, the door can't really go up or down from where it is at right now if you look at where the window and the top are at and the bottom of the door and the rocker. My rear quarter is slightly twisted due to a previous time of sitting the truck on a rock, right below the striker post. I'm almost wondering if I should just shim the hinges slightly to improve the vertical gaps?

Right now, the door is latched which is keeping things in line. If I open the door, the top of the door post pops out slightly and causes the door to not want to shut properly until I lift it back into the proper place. Once I'm happy with the fit, I will mark it and then weld the top of the door post to keep it from moving. Then my door should shut nicely.

Fingers crossed I can get this wrapped up or at least decide on how I want to paint my parts before the final hang.

[Gunnibronco]

If the door is sitting square in the hole, and just needs to move straight up, you can shim between the the body mount & the support channel under the driver's feet. It moves the door hinges up, along with the window frame & top to some extent.

There shouldn't be tension on the striker to keep the door closed. You should be able to open & close the door perfectly without a striker, then put it in to match the door. I know you aren't done, yet, but that should be your goal. With all the aligning & moving things I've done, I still haven't put my strikers back in. That will be last, when everything else is done.

[Gunnibronco]

Actually, I'm not sure I answered your question. What body gap aren't you happy with? Looks like the door to fender gap is thin and the door to quarter gap is wide. That can be adjusted with shims under the hinges. You can shim just the outside hinge to body bolts to move the door back in the hole.

[phyler]

Yeah, the vertical lines are the two that need adjustment. I have the hinges in the middle so I think I can raise the door slightly to even out the body line a bit. The top of the door post isn't secure right now so when you open the door, the post leans out a bit. It you push it back to where it should be, the door closes super nice.

I'm glad I now know where everything should be at. I need to take it back apart so I can paint the kick panel, etc. I want to get those surfaces that sandwich prepped really well so it won't just rust right away.

Thanks!

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[Gunnibronco]

Also, when you move the door back, it will open up the gap at the windshield frame too. Moving the door up will close that gap again.

[phyler]

Not body work but an update. I figured while I had such great access to the gauge cluster wiring I should try to fix the lights that haven't worked since the early 90's. Replaced the burned out or nonexistent bulbs and then started tracing to figure out power.

Found that if I took a jumper wire from a 12v source, I could get the lights to come on. I figured out that I have a bad fuse and light switch. At least I have a solution. Here's a pretty picture with the cluster lit up along with the controls. Can't say I remember ever seeing them lit up. [emoji1]



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[phyler]

Don't have pics at the moment but I'm struggling with the door post. Got it screwed in and hung the door. Things looked OK but the back of the door where it lines up with rear quarter was low by 1/8". I lifted under the door and it lifted easily because the kick panel can flex at the top just slightly. Closed the hood and had a massive gap between the hood and fender, like 1/2". Opened the door and put a jack under it and lifted the top of the post inward. This fixed the hood/fender gap but then the bottom of the post pulled away by as much as 1/2-3/4".

I feel like the kick panel is pretty set as it has to bolt to the dash. I'm just at a loss right now. I'm thinking the door post has a significant curve to it that I didn't notice or I some how don't have the entire post far enough in but the kick panel is what prevents that.

Mainly venting but open to ideas. Thanks!

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[mickphatmac]

Might think about shimming 2 of the body mounts on the drivers side .
The 1 under the Drivers floor board, and the 1 directly behind the Drivers seat?

I would loosen both without unbolting them totally. use a couple of jacks, wood, whatever and try and level out the Body with the door hung and see if you can get it where you like it? Then insert some washers to hold it in place.

[Justin]

What Mick said. The kick panel is heavily braced by the door post. Loosen, adjust the body, tighten. Lather, rise and repeat till you've got everything as close as it'll get. Ford's quality control was poor with regards to the body lines, and 50 years of rust doesn't help. Verify that the kick panel is structurally sound, and that all the parts that attach to it (cowl, mainly) are sounds as well. Body work is fiddly, so small consistent adjustments are your best course. How many screws are holding the post one? I used 15-20. It made adjustments a PITA, but there was a difference in integrity over using 5-10.

[Gunnibronco]

Shimming the bodymount under the driver's feet will lift the door & pillar, helping to lift the back of the door, in relation to the quarter panel. If your underfloor brace is bent this will help compensate for that.

Shimming under the mount behind the drivers seat will lift the 'b' pillar & quarter, and possibly make the door to quarter gap wider at the top.

Shimming under the rear most body mounts will lift the rear end, closing the door to quarter gap at the top.

These bodies are very flexible. I did lots, and lots of adjustments through my current rebuild. I left all the body mounts loose & got the lines right. Then tightened down all the mounts at the same time. My gaps pretty much stayed the same.

Use lots of screws, like Justin said. I noticed when I was testing my doors, using 2 bolts in each hinge to body, instead of 3, allowed the hinge to move off the post when the door closed. These doors are heavy.

During a conversation I was having with the owner of Big Sky Broncos, he said that most the new door posts need work before they are installed. Most have bows of some degree.

[phyler]

Shimming the bodymount under the driver's feet will lift the door & pillar, helping to lift the back of the door, in relation to the quarter panel. If your underfloor brace is bent this will help compensate for that.

Shimming under the mount behind the drivers seat will lift the 'b' pillar & quarter, and possibly make the door to quarter gap wider at the top.

Shimming under the rear most body mounts will lift the rear end, closing the door to quarter gap at the top.

These bodies are very flexible. I did lots, and lots of adjustments through my current rebuild. I left all the body mounts loose & got the lines right. Then tightened down all the mounts at the same time. My gaps pretty much stayed the same.

Use lots of screws, like Justin said. I noticed when I was testing my doors, using 2 bolts in each hinge to body, instead of 3, allowed the hinge to move off the post when the door closed. These doors are heavy.

During a conversation I was having with the owner of Big Sky Broncos, he said that most the new door posts need work before they are installed. Most have bows of some degree.

Thanks Gunni! That's some really helpful info. Sounds like my key body mount is the rear most one. Everything else lines up really nice besides the fender/hood gap which is set by the top of the door post. I can get that to within 1/4" initially (which is about what you showed in a previous pic on yours) but as soon as I tighten the bottom down, it wants to slide back out by 1/8".

One thing I think is causing me an issue is that at the top of the door post, there was a metal tab from the cowl that came down on to the post. That broke off when I removed the old post. Maybe I just need to cut a small piece of sheetmetal to duplicate this and weld it to the cowl then screw it to the top of the post to keep it from flexing outwards?

I'm curious on how they work the door posts? This thing is pretty solid and I'm sure I don't have the tools to change a bow in it (besides a mini-sledge).

BTW, I had about 12 screws when the door was on. My biggest issue is with the top of the post moving outward due to the weight, cause as stated, these doors are heavy.

Thanks!

[Gunnibronco]

I'm not exactly sure how the pillars get reworked. I don't think we really discussed the repair process, we were just talking about what aftermarket body parts fit and which didn't. Talking about body work sometimes gets lost in translation. I think you'd probably cut reliefs along the kick panel seam & into the "post" to flatten out the mating surface. There is a ton of strength in the post's shape, and I don't think heat (welds) and pressure (clamps/screws/vice grips) are going to straighten it. But I'm making a guess. Fortunately, or unfortunately, I've never held one in my hand, or actually dealt with the problem.

[phyler]

Getting close.





Realized my bottom hinge is shot. Not sure how I didn't notice that before.

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[Justin]

Looks great!

[phyler]

Not body work. Took a break to start breaking down the 5.8 that I got last week. I need to consolidate engines and parts in the garage. I have a complete 5.0 that I'll take what I need off of. Will try to get the heads and intake off by Friday if time permits.




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[phyler]

While waiting for the pork shoulder to smoke, I created some in the garage and committed myself to the door post. It's all welded in and the door shuts better than any other time in the 23 years I've owned the Bronco.



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[Eck]

Victory!! Fathers Day miracle.

[Gunnibronco]

Very nice results on a big job.

[Justin]

Nice! Those gaps look great.

[phyler]

Thanks! Chad, I owe you at least one beverage for all the advise you've given. I didn't weld the rocker in yet. Figure I should deal with the rust in the rear quarter first. It feels great though to be this far along. Also need to finish the cowl.

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[Digger]

That's looking great. You have a ton of effort in that, but it looks like it's paying off.

[phyler]

Finally got the rear quarter out. 20+ spot welds along the top. Took me time over a few days as my shoulder just isn't holding up.



Only one spot of rust on the upper so I will do whatever I can to fix that.

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[landshark]

Looks good. Took me some time as well to get those top spot welds drilled out, there were a ton of them. Had to use one of those sheet metal wedges to pry a bit to see them.