Hockeydad4-22

[Moab Mike]

I LIKE IT!!!

[airbur]

Wow....pro shaker job!! Very nice.

[ZOSO]

That thing looks a million times better.

[hockeydad4-22]

This is the Story of How Drew's Little Pony received it's very own Viper Built C-4 Trans, Staring.....

"The Tres Bronco Amigo's"


Andrew "Duke Boy #1" Evans


Frankie "Oil Pit" Dehoff


Willem "Torque Wrench" Inderblitzen


Also Starring:

Phil "The Master" Viperwolf - as Himself


Greg "Gofer" Evans - as head parts cleaner, tool and parts fetcher, and caterer

Special Thanks to Kirk "Kinder" Inderblitzen for helping to facilitate and direct!

This story starts when Drew comes home and announces that his "Trans is thrashed - not shifting right" He says he is not getting quick shifts between 2nd and high gear - there seems to be a delay. So a filter and pan gasket are ordered and advice sought. The Master himself gave directions on how to make some adjustments that should help. Plans were put into place to spend Saturday in the garage making said repairs. Then Drew lost first gear - leaving him driving in second all the time... This is not Good. The Master volunteered that the Valve body may need cleaned and agreed that his expertise would be needed, no longer is this something a layman and one of the "Duke Boys" can accomplish on their own.

Saturday Morning, the pan was dropped, trans was drained and the first issue was discovered. At some point, the pan had been crushed and forced the pick-up into the filter, tearing it and allowing all that crud access to the important internal mysteries of a C-4 Automatic trans. The ATF was the color of gear lube and while there were hopes that we would be successful in our planned repairs, full confidence was waning. Phil did a masterful job of instructing Drew on the delicate process of removing and cleaning the valve body while I played parts gofer and tool fetcher. Helping when and where I was needed.

The repairs done, a test drive and the news was not good. The 38 year old trans had in fact suffered a painful death. Clutches were slipping, It was determined that a full rebuild / replacement was necessary. While the death of the trans was not something planned, the dark cloud did have a silver lining. Drew has been wanting to make some other repairs and upgrades and having his bronco parked for a few weeks would allow him the time to accomplish them. Things like replacing the front rotors that were grooved by a previous owner, repairing a leaking rear main and oil pan gasket, even building the needed harness bar for his roll cage. All things he has been wanting to do this summer but his work schedule would not allow could now be accomplished. I put a call into my "go -to" spare parts guy Kinder, just in case he had a working trans lying about that we could toss in and still allow Drew to drive to work for the next 2 weeks until school started. Kirk unfortunately did not, but his son Willem did. Willem agreed to let Drew have his freshly Viper - rebuilt trans and Drew would replace it when Viper gets his done.

Folks - this is what I love about this club. Great people! This is so far above and beyond I do not have the words to describe the generosity of this young man. So Kirk loaded up the trans, and Willem and brought them over Saturday night so the boys could get an early start. In the meantime, Drew drained the trans, and removed the leaking oil pan (nothing like making a complex project even harder) and started to remove the grooved roters only to discover we do not have to proper spindle nut wrench - a call to Kinder solved this and we used his on Sunday. Frankie came over to spend the night as well. We now had a willing crew, all we needed was expert help. Phil again agreed to come over on Sunday to teach these young men. Game on!

Sunday morning, after a mountain of pancakes and a dozen eggs - the teenage eating machines were ready. They hit the garage and got set up, Phil and Kirk arrived around 9:00 and it was game on. The plan was to allow the boys to do as much of the work as we could, let them learn from the best, be the brawn and in the end, the accomplishment would be theirs! Issues were found, the exhaust H pipe had to be cut and removed to allow the trans to drop. Improper vent lines had been installed at some point - which may have helped the original trans to it's premature death. in the end it was after noon before the old trans was out of the truck. We cleaned up and stopped for a lunch break - giant Qudoba burrito's for everyone and back at it before the sun hit the front of the garage and it got really hot. Bell housing and T-case were cleaned and mated then the tough part - mating the new trans to the engine.

Much wiggling, giggling, pushing, aligning and yes even some cursing and the first bolts were in. Now for the rest of the connections. Drive shafts, neutral safety, throttle kick down, drive shafts, oil pan gasket, fill tubes, dip stick, fill the trans and engine and double check for leaks. Tighten a few bolts and test fire! We jack the rear up and Drew turns the key!

Glory! It seems as though everything is in proper working order. Time to stop for Dinner! Daniel grilled us up some steaks, chicken and even made the sides. Grilled asparagus, baked potatoes and a great salad. Back to the Garage to finish the front brakes. With Phil's expert help everything was disassembled and the process of installing the lug studs into the new rotters was begun. Without a press or even access to air powered impact tools - this was a difficult process. Phil was drained and confident we were on the right track - left for his bed after 10pm. Unfortunately at 11:30 - I determined that the project was just not going to be completed on this night, having started at 8am in the garage - the boys and I were losing attention to some of the details needed to do the work right and I shut the door. Time for bed.

Everyone cleaned up and I took Willem home to sleep in his own bed. Thankful for his help and generosity. Drew and Frankie were fast asleep on the couch when I returned. TV blaring. I covered them with blankets, showered and hit the rack myself.

Once again, Thank you very much Phill, Kirk, Willem and Frankie. Great friendship bonds were formed, I noticed when Drew, Frankie and Willem all traded phone numbers for future text message marathons and made plans to work on each others broncos many more times, as well as terrorizing the streets and trails.

To the rest of the club - keep these young men in mind when you have a project that needs energy, muscle or just a good helping hand. These young men all handle the tools well, have learned a ton and will continue to be a huge resource for us for many years to come. This is the next generation of bronco gurus and I know I will be calling on all three of them many times in the years to come, as well as lending a hand to them on their own builds when ever they need me - weather to turn wrenches, or just clean parts, I will be there. I must say, while I am far more tired today at work than I was at the end of last week, I had a ball working along side them and watching as they learned about one of the more mysterious systems and more difficult installations in our rigs.

Good job gentlemen.

Now onto the pictures.

Day 1: Phil and Drew - organization is key




Completed valve body ready to install.


Installing the valve body and pan:
The master working with his student installing the pan - almost ready to fill and test.

How to feed 3 teenage eating machines breakfast:


The new Viperbuilt C-4 (doesn't seem like it would be that tough does it?)

Disconnecting the linkage, neutral safety, fill tube etc:

Damn stuck cross member bolts:

Cleaned, bagged and labeled all the small parts:

Damn! H Pipe has to be cut out, that was not planned, get out the saws-all!

Yep - that is the old burnt up trans, Willem, are you sure you want to trade?

At some point - The Master needed to find a shady place with no oil to lay down and catch a few winks, replenish for the final push!

Connections, bolts (really - a bolt goes THERE?!!!!)

Frankie working on another difficult bolt:

Getting late:

Fluids? Yup!

Drew and Willem installing the Lug Studs on the new rotters. Yes - that is a high lift jack handle with the breaker bar:

[Rox Crusher]

wow......a new paint job and a new tranny

GREAT WORK GUYS !

Another example that there are some really awesome guys in this club !

[cwin74]

Great green, goes well with the black wheels! I loved following along with the picture story. Damn good job all.

[Entourage]

Great story. So cool when things come together and work out. What an amazing club. You guys will love your ViperBuilt transmission.

[hockeydad4-22]

And the saga of Drew's Little Pony continues: 2 parts to go here.

Part 1: Sputtering, wheezing and dieing pony....

So ever since Drew laid his bronco on its side last spring, the beast has not run well. Sputtering, back firing, dieing, not idling etc. We gave her the full tune up - plugs, roter, cap, wires, timing - have fiddled with the carb until the cows came home (and we do not have any cows). During the plug wire replacement we discovered the firing order was wrong - I found TDC and the rotor points 180 degrees from where it is supposed to. So we used that point as our #1 and routed the plug wires accordingly. set the timing and still.... just does not run well. (I have my theory but I will leave that to myself for now). So we ordered a new set of gaskets for the front of the motor, and a timing chain set. Just in case that was the issue. Stripped the front and guess what - all good in there. Painted up the timing cover and water pump - reinstalled that but not before we took the opportunity to reset the distributor to its proper location. (Not quite done with the radiator instal yet so no test fire as of this morning)

Part 2: T-Case maraca's....

During last weekends adventure in Transmission replacement - somehow we managed to turn the t case into a set of maraca's. She shakes, rattles and rolls all the time. Everything works (yes we did have to pull and reinstall one of the hubs due to improper installation) but all the time - always the thing rattles (Kinder has another way of describing it but not sure how to spell it - he can chime in). We pulled and reinstalled the twin stick - yes it was lose but still makes that racket. Engine running or not - if the drive train is turning - it is rattling. So I was fortunate enough to purchase a rebuilt J-shift case - ran down to the springs to pick it up on Sunday, grabbed a good radiator at the same time. Then ran by Brianuts place in Parker and grabbed his hard top.... sheesh - talk about a bronco parts run.

Anyway - hope to pull the old t-case and pop in the new one tonight after work. Then test drive and keeping our fingers crossed - she runs like a beast with no rattling twin sticks...

* Ok, my theory on why the bronco does not run well: The carb is a 600CFM holley 4 barrel. That is a lot of carb for a stock 302. Yes it can run on it, and it has. Rox ran it like that. But it must be tuned perfectly and you can not stomp into it. According to the Holley charts, she will work on a 302 - that shoots for 5-6000 RPM's. If this thing hits 5 grand - we are in serious trouble. We like to think closer to a 3500rpm red line and a sweet spot between 1800 and 2200. Regardless, I believe when Drew flopped her - she got some gunk stirred up and the rest is history. We did purchase a complete jet kit for the carb and that is next. Drop jet sizes 2-3 sizes and see how she does. If that fails, we have a complete stock 2 barrel carb and intake sitting there on the shelf, cleaned and painted. Just waiting to be installed. (Were it me - the factory set up would already be on the rig but the owner just really wants a 4 barrel...)

On to the pics:




Yeah - it seems that Drew pretty much always looks like this these days....

[D&D72]

I have a far worse theory...... when it was on its side, fluids got where they really don't belong and possibly bent some valves and/or push rods. Here's to hoping your theory is correct and mine isn't!

[Justin]

I was just thinking about your twin stick issue. Are you sure it's internal in the case? My twin stick rattles as well. I've got a JB Fab one, and it uses little heim-looking things for the linkage. I think the little balls are rattling inside the carrier, as it'll go away if I put a little tension on the stick for the front diff.

[hockeydad4-22]

D&D - Your theory SUCKS!!!!! (don't worry - I won't blame you are correct)

I sure hope that is not the case. If it is, well Drew is going to have to drive it like that for a while. No time or funds to rebuild the engine...

Justin - yeah, you can feel it in the sticks, it is not a loose stick, it is internal. it feels like a heavy vibration and holding the stick does not change it.

[D&D72]

D&D - Your theory SUCKS!!!!! (don't worry - I won't blame you are correct)

I sure hope that is not the case. If it is, well Drew is going to have to drive it like that for a while. No time or funds to rebuild the engine...

Justin - yeah, you can feel it in the sticks, it is not a loose stick, it is internal. it feels like a heavy vibration and holding the stick does not change it.

LOL I hope I'm wrong too!

[ClayJ]

I hope you don't have problems like my last motor did. I had it rebuilt in AZ 15 years ago and it just never ran right after that. It was gutless and stalled easily. Over 8 years I did a top end rebuild, changed the carb twice, new gaskets, plugs, wires, cap, switched to electronic ignition, and had it tuned many times by different mechanics and friends. I was so fed up I just parked it and ignore the Bronco for 4 years.

About 3 years ago, I decided it was time to really do something about it. I pulled the motor and stripped it down to a long block. Then I used it as a core for a freshly rebuilt long block at a place here in town. It's run like a champ ever since. I never did figure out what was wrong, but I'm happy now. Cost me about $1,300 plus my time. Wish I'd done that 12 years ago rather than rebuilding that old one.

PS I had to rebuild it 15 years ago because my teenage daughter blew the motor "just turning around". I never have figured out exactly what they were doing but occasionally I hear things like "we were almost back to the highway", and "it wasn't even me, steve was driving at the time". Doncha love teens?

[hockeydad4-22]

PS I had to rebuild it 15 years ago because my teenage daughter blew the motor "just turning around". I never have figured out exactly what they were doing but occasionally I hear things like "we were almost back to the highway", and "it wasn't even me, steve was driving at the time". Doncha love teens?

Well the good news is - this is the teenagers bronco, his engine, he was driving when he rolled it, and if it needs rebuilt or replaced, he will have to pay for it out of his own pocket (he worked all summer and has the cash to do so if he has to).

But yea - I hear those comments all the time and of course I remember the days when I made the same lame ass excuses to my parents. I can even remember when I used to think they were clueless. Now I know better.

[Booger]

Greg have you run a compression check on it yet? Just to ease your mind as to whether or not it's top end related.

600 cfm Holley should work ok. It's probably got vacuum secondaries so that's not the problem. Carb could have some crud in one of the many little air bleed passages from being on it's side. I've tweaked Holley's for many years and know they can be cantankerous beasts.

[D&D72]

X2 what booger suggested. that will give you an answer on MY theory..

[Colorado75bronc]

Ya x3 on what booger said, and I'm running a 600cfm Holley on mine and it runs great, have you checked the float level, make sure there's no crud in the carb like booger said, you know I daily drive mine and if it picks up any crap anywhere in the system it really runs like crap, but first do that compression and leak down test

[hockeydad4-22]

Ok - have been very busy recently on Drew's Little Pony and a bunch of other non bronco related stuff (nope, no work on Wilma yet, she is still waiting patiently for her turn - I have a theory about this that I will explain later)

First - engine issues. So we removed the timing cover - set everything at top dead center and the distributor was in fact - 180* off. Pulled and reinstalled it. While we were in there we took the opportunity to replace the oil pan gasket and rear main (who knows, maybe we can have one of those very rare broncos that does not leak). Re set the plug wires, cleaned and painted everything up, new gaskets, new alt. (was not charging well), timing set and guess what? Seems to run perfect! No - have not done the compression/leakdown tests yet.

Now on to the noisy transfer case: After installing a newly rebuilt case, verifying the twin stick was in fact installed tightly and taking her for a drive - same exact noise. So the call goes out to none other than the master himself, Viperwolf1. Phil agrees to come over and take a look. He goes for a ride along and they come back with no answers. Disconnect the rear drive shaft and try again in front wheel drive (maybe it is the rear drive shaft) - no joy. Set both sticks in neutral and the trans in drive - yup - same noise. listen carefully - where exactly is the noise originating from. Phil and Drew both think it is coming from inside the adapter. This is not good. At the very least the T-case and adapter is coming off. Time for some Pizza and a beer or two.

Off come the case and adapter, low and behold - there is the problem. The $0.33 spring clip that holds the valve into the governor gave up in its efforts to retain said valve into the valve body and governor and the result can be seen in the photo's below. Thus - the noise. And the need to drop and rebuild the newly Viper - rebuilt trans. On the bright side - Phil was working on Drew's original C-4 already so he finished it up and is bring it over today to install.

On to the pictures:

Ever wonder what the inside of your J-shift t-case looks like?


Case cleaned and painted:


And a little "personal touch" for the cover:


Here you see the governor, valve body, valve, spring and the $0.33 spring clip that caused all this grief.


One of the features of a Viper Built Transmission is the magnet Phil places in the pan. Here you see the - well under that mass of gunk and metal if it were clean you would see said magnet. The magnet is about the size of a nickle and this mass of gunk is at least the size of an average mushroom...


And here you see the grove milled into the adapter case by the governor valve... This is where that mass of gunk came from.


Oh and that theory I mentioned above. I am starting to think Drew's bronco is like your pet dog. As long as you are petting you dog, playing with your own dog, everything is fine. But if you start playing with or petting another dog, the first one gets jealous and forces its way in demanding all of your attention...

Just like now, I get another bronco - that is just fine, as long as I do not plan to work on it -

[hockeydad4-22]

Yesterday Viper came over with Drew's original C-4, rebuilt to Viper Built spec. He was kind enough to stick around and help Drew reinstall it. They test drove it before I got home from work and finally - all good. No noise!

So to review, in the last 6 months Drew's bronco has received:
Newish 302 - Thanks Rox
New rear third member with limited slip - thanks Viper and Kinder
New rebuilt Dana 20 Tcase
Twin Stick for the Tcase
New radiator
Full tune up including plugs, roter, plug wires, cap....
Cherokee wiper swap (still waiting to do this, they are ready and sitting in the garage....)
New gaskets and seals at water pump, timing cover, rear main and oil pan
2 new Viper Built C-4 trans (Thanks Kinder, Task Force Bronco and Viper)
racing harnesses
Complete wiring harness
complete front disk brake rebuild including roters and calipers
Complete rear brake rebuild including drums
New paint
Windshield
hard top (ok, technically it is resting under the deck in the back yard - so it has not "received" it yet)
Tires
Hand me down stereo
All new fluids (nothing left when you change everything)

Is it any wonder the boy has spent most of the money he earned over the summer?

[hockeydad4-22]

Well folks, the day before yesterday I gave my 4.9l engine to Drew, so this afternoon he started the process of removing his old 302.

So stay tuned to this thread over the next few weeks as we detail the process of installing this inline six in Drews Little Pony.

[Colorado75bronc]

Why? What happened to his 302?

[Justin]

What, you fell in love with Kirk's 4BT?

[Kinder]

He did have grin on his face the entire time we were running it on Bill Moore lake.

What, you fell in love with Kirk's 4BT?

[hockeydad4-22]

He did have grin on his face the entire time we were running it on Bill Moore lake.

What, you fell in love with Kirk's 4BT?

Well yes - I did fall in love with that 4Bt - but no, unless someone donates one to me, I am not going there. I am still planning to use another 4.9 in Wilma.

Ever since Drew laid his over on its side, it just has not run well. Runs rich, will run "eh, ok-ish" for a while, then crap again. It eats starters about every other month or so... We are tired of fussing with it. School is starting and we need his transportation to be reliable. So, since I have the engine and hopefully everything we need including harness and computer just sitting there, I figured I am better off letting him have it and finding another. I am at least a year away from needing it anyway. (laugh away Kirk, some of us have to work!!!)

Yes - we will be recruiting all the help we can to get this done quickly (especially considering there will not be much work done on it this weekend - I am out of town) So next week, next weekend.... Come one, come all.

We will be sending the Viperwolf signal into the night sky tonight in hopes of gaining his expertise esp in wiring, EFI and .... well.... all other things early bronco...

[Crazyone]

Let me know when your workin on it and I'll see if I can come by. I got evenings and weekends open.

[hockeydad4-22]

By the time I got home from work yesterday, Drew - Frankie and Willem had completly removed all the front sheet metal and were getting started removing all the rest of the accessories and sundry items - leaving the engine in place waiting only for Kinder to come over with his hoist.

Then time for the main event - pull the old 302 (which will be for sale very soon if anyone is interested...)

1st- Steering gear is being rebuilt while everything is out - hopefully this will eliminate some of the leaks.
2nd- 23 gal tank was dropped and the search is on for a fuel pump that might work. I have heard somewhere that a certain mustang pump will fit, I need to do some reading/research to see if I can figure it out. If not we will look at external pumps.
3rd- crap is this thing dirty, greasy and grimy. I refuse to work on it like this or allow my engine to be installed in such a mess, this will be cleaned and painted up. I told Drew that he could have this engine, and I would sponsor the whole install to make his rig reliable for driving to and from school -but no half-ass/short-cuts. We will do it right. This starts with cleaning and painting. None of the following fab and welding can be done until the frame is clean.
4th- an additional cross brace between the frame rails for the PS pump that has cracked the frame will be fabricated and installed
5th- modifications to the front stock cross member are necessary
6th- the frame portion of the engine mounts need to me relocated forward and down a bit.
7th- stab the engine, mount it and then start the fun stuff....

Pictures:

What it looked like when I got home:


Look at all that grime where the steering box used to be:


Drew and Frankie having dinner:


Probably soon to be for sale - complete dual exhaust

[Jesus_man]

Making good progress! It's great these young-uns have the gumption and know-how to get this stuff done. That gets a lot of admiration and respect from me!

The good news about the leaking steering box is there is no rust there...I know that one from experience.

[hockeydad4-22]

Well on the last day of summer break the young men managed to get the first trial fit of the 4.9L EFI. Going to need some fab work. Cross-member clearanced and relocated. Motor mounts on the frame relocated and lowered. Firewall and cowel modified to clear that massive (but SWEET!!!!) intake.

Probably also going to need electric fans too. Too early to tell about a body lift. Going to be close

[hockeydad4-22]

We will also be looking into options regarding bump stops, either that or we will have to clearance the oil pan or some combination of both.

We are already planning to lose the inner fenders and tube the front end, it is starting to look like we may have to delete the core support as well - which is not an entirely bad thing, it opens up a whole bunch of options for radiators should we chose to. On the down side, it creates some issues with where and how to mount some things like lights, trans cooler, horns, over flow, washer fluid ....

So tonight the first trial fit will come out, some much more careful measurements will be taken and then we will tack in the frame mounts, fab the cross member (did I forget to mention that? oh yeah, that had to come out too.....) we are actually thinking 2, one behind the engine to help protect the trans and a second moved forward as far as possible to help stiffen the frame at the steering.

A quick rundown/review of what the boys (Drew, Frankie and Willem) have accomplished so far with very minimal interference from the likes of me.

Removed all the front sheet metal
Removed the old engine

Removed the fuel lines, gas tank etc
Cleaned the frame and engine bay of all the old oil, grease and grime
installed a temp cross member
Removed the original cross member
removed the frame portion of the engine mounts (what are these called???)
Repaired and reinforced the frame where it was cracked from the old steering box
Stabbed the engine for the first time (first of many I am sure)

Today school starts - senior year for 2 of these young men, so progress will be slowed a bit but rest assured, there will be progress because without it, Drew is without transportation.

[hockeydad4-22]

Ok - Been real busy with lots of bronco and non bronco stuff but here is where we are today.

Engine is in and motor mounts mocked up. Looks like the clutch fan is coming off and we will need electric fans - probably pushers at that. In the photo below the front clip is just in place for reference. I think we will be eliminating all that sheet metal and probably even the core support.

As you can see it looks like a body lift as well. The engine does need to drop down a bit further than shown in this photo and the inner fenders/core support are about 3/4" low as well.

We will also be fabricating a complete cross member as the factory one simply will not work but that is a relatively simply process compared to much of what else needs done.






I do have a good excuse for the slow pace of late, I just received this from my Uncle and I just had to put it on the lake a few times to try her out... Yeah - I like her. '66 starcraft cuddy. 110 hp I/O and all original.


Besides the new (to me) toy - I have been forced to do some work around the house on stuff the boss and CFO has been requesting including some new fences, moving one to screen my ever expanding EB parts stash and building some trellis from old steel gates I acquired from work....

New fence to keep the dogs somewhat contained in one part of the yard:

The old fence (that was where the new iron one is) installed to hide my parts stash

I turned 2 of these gates into trellis' (this is one - the other is identical)


Now she is happy and hopefully she will leave us alone to play with our Broncos... Now all I need is a bunch of money! (college is expensive)